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N.S. Gill

Macedonians, Slavs, and Greeks

By July 3, 2009

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Alexander the Great Mosaic
Public Domain
The question of whether Alexander the Great was a Greek still stirs up controversy today. Mary Beard has written about it in her Times Online column, A Don's Life: Was Alexander the Great a Slav?. The contention that Slavs were Macedonians is only one of the issues Beard takes to task -- one that seems far simpler to answer. As to the Macedonian=Greek equation, as Beard indicates, there is a substantial following among Classicists who make that connection. Mary calls the founding story of the Macedonians from the Argives a myth.
What do you think?

Comments

July 3, 2009 at 11:30 am
(1) Mario says:

I dont see why they should not celebrate their connection to Alexander. They inhibit they same lands as he did!

At some point in time Slavic speaking tribes took control over the area and the language of the land eventually changed, but the majority were still (ethnically) Macedonians – the people of Alexander.

As i well known the ancient Macedonians could not participate in the Olympic games, since the other helladians did consider them to be barbarians.

July 4, 2009 at 4:13 am
(2) Demostenes says:

Actually, it doesn´t matter at all. The importance of Alexander´s conquers was more related with the Greek world than with the Slav culture. Macedonians thought themselves as Greeks, even when Greeks from other poleis could consider them otherwise (as barbarians, for example), al least until the Hellenistic period.

The ethnic factor is not relevant for the history in this case. Macedonians were educated as Greeks and, in fact, their culture were in some points more “Greek” than the education in other poleis. The conquered lands were deeply hellenized as a consequence of this.

The founding story of the Macedonians is probably a myth, but that doesn´t means than Macedonians were not culturally Greeks. Most Greeks from the colonial world were also mixed with the local population and had different and complex ethnic connections. As far as they talked a Greek dialect, and were citizens or members of a polis, they were also considered Greeks.

July 9, 2009 at 1:10 am
(3) Georgina says:

At that time, Greece was not unified so muck like other city states such as Sparta, Thessaly and others, Macedonia was an empire in its own right; governed by its own ruler in its own state so the Greeks lived separetly under their own ruler in their own city-states. It was actually his father Philip who unified most of the Greek city states and then Alexander who actually unified Greece.
Yes, the word Macedonian is a Greek word and was given to describe uncultured, undeducated, unsophisticated, basic people living on the land however, I am inclined to believe this applied to a minority of people living on the land rather than an entire empire of people. I would think that people in neighbouring regions dispersed and moved into the region and the first ruler took control of the land hence, taking on the name of the region, Macedonians. The fact that they were called Macedonians in no way indicates that such people were of Slavic background. They were simply the inhabitants living of the land. They could very well have been of Greek background and were so called Macedonians as they were not as developed compared to rest of the Greeks living in other city-states such as Athens, Thessaly and the like.
More importantly, ancient archeological relics and artefacts found in this region are evidence that there was strong Greek influence and traces of Hellenic culture in this region.

My next point to look at is Alexander’s parentage. His father’s background is surrounded in myth being that he was said to be a descendant of Heracles from his paternal side and Archilles from his maternal side – probably as writers wanted to portray Alexander and his stregths and conquests as descending from such powerful beings – both are well known Greek mythological heroes however, we cannot rely on this to support his Greek heritage given its mythological nature. His mother was Olympias who was the daughter of the King of Epirus – part of northern Greece. I think it is safe to say that you would be hard pressed to find a Slavic person whose name is Olympia and is not of Greek background.

Alexander the Great was tutored by both Aristotle (as in the great philosopher) as well as Leonidas further adding weight to the argument of strong Hellenic influence and culture, so definately strong Hellenic influence in his life and upbringing.

Furthermore, in his quest to conquer, Alexander spread Greek teachings, ideologies and philosophies to all places he conquered even to the point of asking his army to greet him like they did the Gods. His horse’s name was Buchephalus which means “big head” in Greek once again proving the strong Hellenic influence in his life and upbringing. His generals were Ptolemy, Nearchus to name a few and historic writers included Plutarch, a Hellene.

So, I conclude that Alexander the Great was Macedonian – because at that time the Greeks were not unified – so I believe it is correct to call him a Macedonian as Macedonia was an empire in its own right but evidence does show that the people living on this land ie. the Macedonians were in fact Greeks and at the very least, these people were certainly living as Greeks and were heavily influenced by Hellenic culture, education, philosophy and the Greek way of life.

July 9, 2009 at 3:18 am
(4) Stratos Soubassakis says:

Hello people!
Alexander himself and the whole Macedonian royalty, claimed Herculean descendancy.
Slavs invaded that part of the Hellenic Peninsula around the 7th century AD, assisted by the Romans, who saw them as border keepers.
Makednos (the patriarch of Macedonians) is son of Zeus, was born before the mythical times and writers mention it before the classical times, even. Hesiod writes it, among others, in a poem!
When Americans claim that they are Cherokee, Maya, Aztec, Mikmak, or some other American tribe, we will understand the utopic claim made by Slavs!

July 9, 2009 at 4:58 am
(5) Alexandros Basis says:

Please follow the link below to read a letter by Proff. Stephen G. Miller sent to the “Archaeology” Magazine.

It will help a lot!

A NON Greek Scientist speaks about the Macedonian-Greek relation.

http://www.phys.uoa.gr/~nektar/history/articles/stephen_miller_letter_to_archaeology_magazine.htm

In addition:
PHILIPPOS = Phil + Hippo (Phil=the one who likes + Hippo=horses)
ALEXANDROS = Alex + Andros (Alext=he one who fights + Andros=Men )

Both names have Greek roots and are used till today in modern Greek.

Regards
Alex

July 9, 2009 at 6:09 am
(6) Brian Daly says:

Today Macedonians speak a Slavic language and for the most part are descendants of Slavic invaders . In Alexander’s time they were a people who spoke a language which might be called a dialect of Greek. During the middle ages Slavs invaded and migrated into what is now Greece .

July 9, 2009 at 12:59 pm
(7) Alex Basis says:

Concerning what Brian Daly wrote.
He is right on the dialect spoken at the time of Philipp and Alexander. But Philipp decided that the official language of his state will be the then (common) Greek language.
The area occupied by the Macedonians at the time of Philipp and Alexander is today divided into three parts.
One part belongs to today’s Greece, including the old capital Pella and the big city o Thessaloniki (Salonika) – both names are Greek. This part is the Greek province called “Macedonia”. In this part the spoken language is modern Greek.
A second part (small) belongs to today’s Bulgaria. In this part the spoken language is Bulgarian.
The third part (which is the Northern part) belongs to the F.Y.R.O.M. (Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia) which was called VARDARSKA till the end of the Second World War. President Tito decided to turn its name to Republic of Macedonia, but not as an independent country, as it was a part of the “Great Yugoslavia”, a Tito’s idea and dream.
After Yugoslavia (under Milosevic) lost the war, Yugoslavia was divided into Serbia, F.Y.R.O.M. e.t.c. The state of F.Y.R.O.M. (this is the official name in the United Nations) has Albanians and – majority – Slavs (and of course some Bulgarians, Greeks, Turks and Serbs). The Albanians have their own dream (“Great Albania”) and don’t care about the name of the country and what was Alexander. The official language of the country is a dialect of the Bulgarian language with a mixture of Slav language.
During the Middle Ages the Slavs came and invaded ONLY THE NORTHERN PART of the Balkan Peninsula. At that time the strong Byzantine Empire (as was called later on the New Rome) had under its control what is Greece today. After the Turks concurred Constantinopolis (today called IS-TAN-POLIS=TO THE CITY, that finally became Istanbul) the area was under the Turkish occupation. So, the Slavs NEVER concurred what Greece is today.

July 9, 2009 at 1:50 pm
(8) Benedict says:

Well, this is very interesting.

I think it is a “simple” matter of doing genetic testing to get the true answer.

On PBS it was stated (therefore it must be true!) that it was shown by genetic testing that the Lebanese are the descendants of the Phoenicians. It makes sense to me because the Lebanese I have known in San Francisco have tremendous business sense and have remarkable ability to deal with people of other races or nationalities. I am trying to say that the Phoenicians were fabulous traders and did that better than anybody else for centuries.

Anyway, it is hard to imagine that an army of Greeks would follow somebody into the great unknown who was not totally Greek. Again, Philip calling in Aristotle to tutor his son Alexander is one thing as proof of his “Greekness”, plus was not his mother a priestess of the Greek religion?

Anyway, to avoid rewriting history unnecessarily and simply presenting problems and confusion, let’s have PBS sponsor some genetic testing!

August 4, 2009 at 8:14 pm
(9) Ilija says:

ALEKSANDAR THE MACEDONIAN ,not Alexandar the Great !
Why you are afraid to say Macedonian ???
Aleksandar was NOT an occupator, he was а culture incorporator
First Filip and Aleksandar has fight with Greeks and The Macedonian Falang had DEFEATED the Greeks in 7 battles.Then when the Macedonian Impery attacked the Persya, ocupated Greeks in Persia has fight against Macedonians !
The ancient Macedonians spoken language was like modern Greek ???
This is absolutely WRONG!
Philip, his son Aleksandar and all ancient Macedonians had spoken a language TOTALY DIFFRENT from ancient greek and modern greek, BUT very simular, 80% same language as Modern MACEDONIAN , used today by Macedonians !!!
Then , comunication between Macedonians (MАКЕДОНЦИ) and Greeks was only with interpreters.
A official language in the Macedonian Impery was the Macedonian language, as official ,formal letter was “the demothic letter” – macedonian letter.
In Macedonian language in demotic letter is written the middle of Rosseta Stone.

September 7, 2009 at 5:49 pm
(10) George says:

Ilija, tel me what it means in your language Alexander, Macedonia, Philip, Olympiada, Aristotle…
Thank you

November 26, 2009 at 6:01 pm
(11) Riskos Georg says:

Macedonism = Hellenism
I live in Macedonia, I love Macedonia and for that, as Macedonian I have a task: carry and spread Hellenic (Greek) civilization and culture into the world…Hellenic art, philosophy, science and language… So I call all Macedonians to do that, with strength and real knowledge. I call you too Alexandra, Carmen, Maja, Peter..! Hellenism into the world!

November 28, 2009 at 3:19 am
(12) Riskos Georg says:

Yes we are Macedonians, of course we are Greeks, live to service truth, justice and peace, in that bases to service civilization!
Yes we are 3500000 Macedonians, of course we are Greeks and we have the obligation to inform every one for our causes.
Everyone with respect and concern for truth, justice and peace help our causes.

December 12, 2009 at 3:48 am
(13) Riskos Georg says:

There is no country called “Macedonia”, but there is the something like north Greece or west Bulgaria or east Albania or south Serbia or all together (Just like the salad).

The word “Macedonia” is definitely Greek, not Bulgarian. The part of Macedonia that Serbs and Bulgarians occupied in 1913 and conducted a genocide against the Real Macedonians (all 3500000 millions -survivors- today we was and we are Greeks). It is this genocide and the existence of a Real Macedonian minority that Serbs and Bulgarians tries to cover up. The “war” against Real Macedonians, our brothers in Cyprus and all Greeks it will not work, the Real Macedonian people and our brothers, are determined to win no matter the cost…!

February 18, 2010 at 8:12 am
(14) Eleftherios says:

First of all allow me to tell something to our friend Ilija. Since the ancient Macedonians were not Greek and did not speak Greek, what were they, and which language did they speak? What was their alphabet, what kind of customs did they have? Slavic? Since, you claim to be a true descendant of Alexander the Great explain to all of us where Slavs dissappeared for almost 1000 years to return in the 7th century and establish themselves in the northern part of the balcanic peninsula? What all the proto-Slavic “Macedonians” that you claim to be were doing for so many years? Why Alexandros (and not Aleksandar as you paraphrase the name) had a greek name? Why your language is 70% Bulgarian and 30% Serbian? So many questions and no answers from your side. And something last..If you are so confident about your origin and you have $100 please do a DNA test (maybe through Ancestry.com) and prove me wrong..I did that test showing me to belong to the most ancient branch of the Mediterranean people and I am a Macedonian, I am a Greek born and raised in Macedonia, like my father, my forefathers many many years before your fake country was established. I will await for your answers my friend Ilija..By the way your name is of Greek origin..St. Elias is the saint..But do you know what his names means?

February 20, 2010 at 1:38 pm
(15) Denis Tenev says:

Eleftherios…(sorry for my bad English) The name of St Elias is not of of Greek origin… The name is meaning Yahweh is God… on Jewish language (אליהו, Eliyahu). So, how can people believe in Your “history” when usurp the Jewish history and origin…??!!
Who made in first time in history the phonetically type…? Greeks?? No, the creator of phonetically type is old Phoenicians. His Aleph, Beth, Gimel, Daleth, is very similar with Yours Alpha Beta Gamma Delta…Do you see that??
It`s smell on plagiarism…

February 20, 2010 at 2:50 pm
(16) Denis Tenev says:

Our country is not fake…Greek, Bulgarian and Serbian history about our country is fake. Sorry about that…
But, I am so glad to hear finally from people in “south Macedonia” that: I am a Macedonian…born and raised in Macedonia, like my father, my forefathers many many years before..” Honestly, I believe that you are Macedonians. But if you can be the real Macedonians, why we can`t be the real Macedonians??? Like You, my father, my forefathers many many years (and centuries) before tell me that I am Macedonian. We do not take away your rights to be real Macedonians. Why you take away ours rights to be real Macedonians…? Only because Slavs??? There is no logical…because, if we can`t be the real Macedonians only because Slavs, than You can`t be the real Macedonians too…What do you know about Slavs??? I have reed many books, but I see that we have more information`s about Slav from modern time than from ancient time… Do you know that the theory about Slavs is Russian, Bulgarian and Serbian communist propaganda? In this theory, ancient Macedonians was “killed” from Slavs…wow!!! Do you believe in that!!!??? If the Slavs make genocide to Macedonians, than they keeled my fathers and your fathers… Do you see the point???
I asking all the time: Do we have some kind of ancient historical document`s about Slavs genocide over Macedonians??? I steel asking, but I never get the answer, because don’t exist…So, Macedonians exist in all Macedonian territory trough the centuries until now..in present.
OK, fact is that Slavs come in Balkan peninsula…(including Peloponnese) and all of as (including You) are conglomerate of many nations and culture, and is out of mind when You say that we, the people in Republic of Macedonia, can`t be the real Macedonians… You can`t take this from as…This is our heredity…our moral rights to take part of ancient history. Macedonians who live in R. Macedonia are CONTINUES on all historical things to happen on our country…We have historical facts, archaeological and anthropological facts AND genetics facts (you know that)…
Eleftherios, believe me, I have sympathy to your nations…I begin You: DO NOT PUT CURSE ON YOUR NATION with another genocide…

February 20, 2010 at 4:16 pm
(17) Denis Tenev says:

some historical facts about that Macedonians continued exist in Macedonian territory:

http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/ConciseMacedonia/Documents.html

Why Greeks today have problem and make confusion about Slavs language??? Why they say that modern Macedonian language is close too Bulgarian and Serbian language…? Because is really similar… But I say that Bulgarian and Serbian language is close too Macedonian language…(I see your reactions :) , if you know history, there is no reason for reactions)
Modern Greek language is not same with ancient COINE language. Its similar, but not same. Why You can`t (or don’t want) to see the similar “Slavs” and ancient Macedonians word`s??? Your modern language in etymology, is similar with ancient language… modern Macedonian in etymology is similar with old Macedonian language…Eleftherios, if you honestly see this facts you will never ask questions like before…I understand your confusion…Many people (like our ex president Gligorov) learn many things from his school or local propaganda, not from his personal investigations…
Ancient Macedonians was totally different from ancient Hellenes…Greek propaganda don`t have historical facts for his claim…They have only one: ” Greek language”… Are You sure that is real facts…?
I thing if we explore we will see that the word Greek belong to modern terminology…not ancient. In ancient time, there no exist terminology of “Greek language”…This language in ancient time was coine language and this language (and Phoenicians letters) was in use not only by Helene like civilizations accomplishment many centuries before Macedonians campaign. Do you know that???
Another thing. Do you know something about “Greek transcription”? Many god`s, many names in ancient times was changed in his letters and sound with “Greek transcription”…Never mind, somehow, Your Hellenic heritage is OK. This is your right. Nobody can`t take from You…But, please stay in borders on Your history. If You put your finger in other history (like “name Elias was Greek origin????!!!!”) the world will compete found your plagiarism…(or maybe know all about that).
R. Macedonia is not Your enemy. We love You, and we wont to have good neighboring relationship with You…honestly

February 20, 2010 at 5:36 pm
(18) denis tenev says:

Genes are writen by natyre, not by politipolititians, so please read more

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11260506

April 9, 2010 at 11:04 am
(19) Mario says:

Denis, in front of your parliament in Skopje you have all ancient inscriptions. You know something? I can read and understand all of them. I wish you could do the same….

Ancient Macedonians, even if they weren’t initially Greek, they were hellenised with time. The whole historical period following Alexander’s rule was named by historians HELLENISTIC TIMES. It wasn’t called “Macedonski times” (which sounds ridiculous anyway).
Bottom point:
- FYROMians live in a region part of which was ancient Macedonia.
- FYROMians are Slavs. They speak a slavic language, they can read and understand other slavic languages (serbian, croatian, bulgarian, croatian, slovenian, even russian and/or polish with some greater difficulty though).
- Slavs lived in macedonia alongside with greeks, albanians, turks etc. ever since 5th-6th century. Therefore, I wouldn’t mind this nation to be called Slavomacedonia. It’s accurate and historically acceptable.
- However, any relation of Slavomacedonians to ancient macedonia and alexander the great is just sad.

Nobody here is an enemy of each other. The balkans had enough wars already. You need though to find your own cultural identity which exists and is rich but is just not related to the history of the ancient macedonians.

P.S. Regarding your last link….NEWSFLASH: Humanity first appeared in Afrika. That includes you as well….

May 23, 2010 at 12:43 pm
(20) Riskos Georg says:

Dear Denis
I am Macedonian…born and raised in Macedonia, like my father, my forefathers many many years before and my brothers and i protect and serve Hellenic Civilization.
Denis be pround being part of the Hellenic family, as Macedonians we have a task to live and die for Greece.

May 29, 2010 at 2:17 pm
(21) Markus says:

As Stratos said the Slavs came 1000 years later in the Balkans therefore the question if Alexander the Great was Slav is useless. The ancient Macedonians were Tracs. As being neighbors of the Greeks they got in contact with the advanced Greek culture and they were strongly influenced.
Alexander was a ruthless conqueror but had no genius of a state man. His empire lasted till he died. If you want his empire was like the Genghis Khan empire but smaller.

May 29, 2010 at 2:40 pm
(22) Markus says:

About the Greek names: Greeks renamed many people and places as they were the ones that wrote the history. It is very possible the actual names were different and “sound like” the ones we know today. Also the assimilation of the Greek culture can explain the Greek names. Somebody says Greek wouldn’t follow a non-Greek. This is not true as by the time of Alexander the Greeks were widespread in Mediterranean basin as mercenaries. Half century before Philip (401 before Christ) the 10000 Greeks (Xenofon – Anabasis) fought and won the battle of Cunaxa (70 km north of Babylon) under Cyrus the Younger a … Persian, not a Greek.

June 3, 2010 at 2:04 am
(23) Riskos Georg says:

Dear Marcus etr

We are Macedonians, so we are Dorians, so we are Greeks and our heritage came from Hercules. Our origin and heritage came from Mykines and you can call us also Timenides, Argeades or Herakleides.
We have long history, Alexander III king of Macedonians, general of all Greeks was an episode, bun who can deny that he spread Hellenic culture and civilization to the known world.
We was the leaders of Hellenic renaissance during Byzantine empire, see Macedonian Dynasty, see for example Basil II, a glorious emperor!
As real Macedonians fought by the side of our brothers during Greek revolution 1821 and our brothers fought with us for the freedom of our people.

We are Macedonians today 2010, protect and serve Hellenic Culture & Civilization and always being proud part of the Hellenic family, as Macedonians we have a task to live and die for Greece.

June 3, 2010 at 10:21 am
(24) Riskos Georg says:

About Macedonians:-the speech of Alexander I, king of Macedonians, when he was admitted to the Olympic games
“Men of Athens…
Had I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Hellas I should not have come to tell you; but I am myself Hellene by descent, and I would not willingly see Hellas exchange freedom for slavery….
If you prosper in this war, forget not to do something for my freedom; consider the risk I have run, out of zeal for the Hellenic cause, to acquaint you with what Mardonius intends, and to save you from being surprised by the barbarians.
I am Alexander of Macedon.”
(Herodotus, The Histories, 9.45)

and about Fyromians:”Every FYROMIAN national who does not claim Albanian or Serbian origin has the right to declare a Bulgarian origin.” This is an individual act in accordance with the historical reality of our common ethnic origin,”
According to: Stefan Nikolov of the Agency for Bulgarians Abroad. (August 2006 AFP)

June 12, 2010 at 9:58 am
(25) Riskos Georg says:

The first Natives from Macedonia who went as immigrants in American Soil and were recorded in US cencuses were of course Greeks.
In the 1880 US Census we find Thomas Protopsaltis, Antonis Protopsaltis and Konstantinos Trico or Traikos. These Persons identified themselves in the US cencus as being born in Macedonia. Thomas was a 32-year old physician and a widower who was born in Macedonia. He also said that both his father and mother were born in Macedonia. Similarly, Konstantinos was born in Macedonia in 1848 with both
Traiko-Sterios had proudly stated: “My ancestors were Greeks, my father was a Greek. I, too will be a Greek and will die a Greek!!”
parents having been born in Macedonia, and he was also single and a minister. In another desperate attempt, FYROM’s mouthpieces in American Chronicle tried to claim the above persons as being Slavs, but they failed as usual. They bear easily recongnisable Greek surnames that exist even today in Macedonia and the rest of Greece.
In fact members of Traikos family were mentioned in books about Macedonia. They were portrayed as being Proud Greeks who were sacrificed for Hellenism. Ironically, some were butchered by the Bulgarian Komitadjis whose descedants now, try unsuccessfully to claim the people they brutally murdered as being of their own kin.
Like we can read in the attached picture Traiko-Sterios had proudly stated:
“My ancestors were Greeks, my father was a Greek. I, too will be a Greek and will die a Greek!!”

June 12, 2010 at 10:03 am
(26) Riskos Georg says:

French self-witness account of 1910 – Macedonians prefer to be crucified rather than to deny Hellenism

“Greece in evolution..”, 1910 by Abbott, G. F. (George Frederick)

Account by a Frenchman self-witness who found himself in Macedonia and specifically “to Demir-Hissar, to Barakli-Djoumai’a, to Serres, to Nevrocop, to Razlog, to Djumal-Bala, to Melnik, to Petritch, to Drama, to Cavalla, to Niaousta, to Vodena, to Sorovitch, to Clissoura, to Kastoria, to Monastir, to Megarovo, to Tirnovo, to Florina, and to a hundred villages.

“Everywhere I found men who, even as they died, found strength to cry with passionate, intrepid voices. “ We are Greeks! Zito i Ellas ! ”

“all these Macedonians prefer to be crucified rather than to deny Hellenism“

June 15, 2010 at 10:06 am
(27) Denis Tenev says:

Hmmm… let me see…

Greeks says that we are Helen’s
Bulgarians says that we are Thracian’s
Albanians says that we are Illyrian’s
Serbians says that we are something like them…

What its true?

HELOOOO PEOPLE AROUND…

We are people too, human kind with fillings and dignity…just like You

I can see that the new history is not change too much. Yours propaganda trough centuries its trying to kill our identity, our freedom, our rights to bee that’s we are…Macedonians!!!
You say too many words, but nothing change…I am still Macedonian!!!

But, because we love all of you, with Christian Love, let me explain something…

June 15, 2010 at 2:26 pm
(28) Denis Tenev says:

Mario… dear Mario… what do you trying to say me???
Are you trying to abuse me??? Where include me my last post??? Don’t worry, I understand you…

With deficit and weakness of answers you can only to offence (just like others with him pure propaganda)
Ok…You don’t answer my simple questions…but I will answer yours.

The language its changeable thing…and because in ancient history we can`t find term Greeks language (but different dialects) we can conclusion that the first (see linear A and B inscription) language of Balkan Peninsula have evolution and progress. With influence of Phoenician letter we come to Koine language and scripture. Koine was official scripture and language of Macedonian empire…and true the Roman (Byzantic) empire you can find Koine like official language in some letters in Ottoman empire.
All dialects in Balkan are evolution in different languages…but, because German historians in 19 c put in history that Helens are fathers of all civilization and languages, we have now an historical hypothesis…in that time, with poor historical and archaeological evidence that hypothesis become official history…When Greek state is established in 1832 Koine language was official language of new state and become Greek language… Now we have more evidence and history must be edit out and revise…

Mario…can you understand these words:
In bracket is English translation

Aide (let as go), Vino (wine), Arin (well) Druo (wood), `Eruko (in hand), Gard (town, sity), Glazo (voice), Glos (word), Korinto (bath-tub), Kudo (freak), Lego (bed) Luta (viper), Maia (mother), Malako (young), Mili (kind), Miriso (perfume, smell), Moi (mine), Ni (nor), O`de (here), Odevo-Odena (going, had gone), Okko (eye), Paean (celebrated), Pesaderi ( infantry), Pesko (baked), Ploo (floating), Podarki (gifts), Proselio (emigrate), Receos (said, told), Sfallo (downed), Stego (tight), Stero (old), Telos (body), Trikala (wheels) and finally Tcelniku (leader)…

I can understand…with my modern Macedonian language who have own evolution and progress

So, I don’t want proof nothing with these, just want to say that it’s very difficult to explain all historical thinks…
And, it’s sad when you try to adopt and usurp history only for yourself. It’s nonhuman to dispute our rights to be Macedonians, its nondemocratic, improperly and deviously when put the veto…Your acts its violence, with symptoms of robber. Where include you all of these???
So, If we are slavomacedonians, then you are slavogreeks, and You’re Former Turkish Republic of Greece must stop to upset and disturb our country and our people, because we don`t upset, dispute and rob anybody.

June 15, 2010 at 3:31 pm
(29) Denis Tenev says:

I forgot something

The before showing words belong to Ionic/Aeolic dialect and we can find in Homer literature. Can You find in today Greek language?

June 15, 2010 at 4:54 pm
(30) Denis Tenev says:

My brother Riskos

Do You see the map of modern Greek state in 1832? Macedonia not included in that map. If Your fathers take a faith for Macedonia, why they don’t make Macedonia free and liberty?

Our Macedonians father’s true centuries take faith for Macedonian liberty, not for other… His blood it’s our witness.

Why Macedonia in Greece before was called Northern Greece?
Everybody knows that Macedonia was separated 1913 in 3 parts… In all of this part Macedonian was put in different propaganda…

So, my brother Riskos, all Macedonians are victims of some local propaganda…Why we trying to destroying self?

June 18, 2010 at 9:30 am
(31) Denis Tenev says:

Another point to Mario…

What do you mean when you say that we “need though to FIND your own cultural identity…”? How can FIND something like this… Like you???

Identity it’s hereditary…not something to find…and we have this legacy and heredity for our filing about our identity…

Everybody can find that Macedonians always have a fight for his name, especially in last tree/four century, (with pressure of different contra propaganda from around) and they always celebrate his connection with ancient Macedonians… many documents testimonies for that.

June 18, 2010 at 9:54 am
(32) Denis Tenev says:

Another thing…

You say: “Ancient Macedonians, even if they weren’t initially Greek, they were Hellenized with time”
This is something freak for me… do you know about Demosthenes and his Philippics? I am sure that every Greek know…and what Demosthenes say about Macedonian (when he took about distinctive between Helens and barbarian …?

Demosthenes had spoken this to Filip II

… not only no Greek, nor related to the Greeks, but not even a barbarian from any place that can be named with honors, but a pestilent knave from Macedonia, whence it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave” – Demosthenes, Third Philippic, 31

But, if we take actual historical meaning from 19century that Macedonians were Hellenized with time, I will ask something… (believe me, I want your answer, I not have provocation)

If Macedonians was Hellenized with time, they still was Macedonian? right???
If Macedonians was Romanized with time, they still was Macedonian, right???
If Macedonian was Slovenized with time, they still was Macedonian, right???
If Macedonian was Islamized with time, they still was Macedonian, right???

do you see my logical point?

Greek government recognize the people from Afghanistan named Hunzi and Kalashi like ancient Macedonians (even they speak the words like: bara, gazi, se vika, turne, vadi, etc…still used in modern Macedonian Language)
If they can be the successors of ancient Macedonians, why we, the people who live here, in Macedonia, can`t be the successors?
I know the answer, but I want to hearing from you…

Theory of Slavs is totally unclear… If I am wrong, please proof me…with evidence, not with brainwashing propaganda…
Can we find archaeological findings from where they come? NO!!!!
Are scientists 100% sure when they come in the Balkan? NO!!!
Can we find some evidence from that time what happen to Slavs??? NO!!!

About Slavs we have a little evidence from Byzantic time, and all of theory about him it’s from 19 century…

I thing that word Slavjani (from slovo=logos) was in used to separated Latin from Orthodox Church…my meaning..
I have my theory about Slavs…but if you want (or anybody else) I will write in some next post…

June 23, 2010 at 5:01 pm
(33) Riskos Georg says:

Dear Denis you are misinformed but it isn’t your fault, you can always find the truth…so pay attention:

*Once again the name Macedonia came from the Dorian Greeks (Herakleides), who were called “Macedni.” The language they spoke in ancient times was a Hellenic dialect.

*The Macedonians were ancient Dorian Greeks who entered the geographical area of Macedonia from Mikines before 1100 B.C., long – long before they so called Slavs appeared in the world.

*Macedonia, ruled by Philip II of Macedon was one of the ancient Greek states, just like Athens was a separate state; Sparta was a separate state, Thebes, etc. Its geography did not even include present-day FYROM. See map of ancient Greek territory

*Slavic tribes (the 60% people of FYROM are of Slavic descent) originated from the territories of modern Belarus, Poland, European Russia and Ukraine (ΚConstantine VII΄ “Rosé” (913-59A.D.), emperor member of the Macedonian Dynasty (Hellenic Renaissance) in lecture DAI, called them by their own name Dragovicians), they migrated to the region during the 6th century A.D., 800 years after Alexander III the Great King lived.

*Under Ottoman rule, the geographic definition of the Macedonia region was expanded to include present-day FYROM and during the Balkan wars of 1912-1914 the geographical territory of Macedonia was divided. 51.6% retained by Greece; 38.3% parceled to Yugoslavia; 10.1% parceled to Bulgaria. Greek real estate was parceled out.

*During World War II, Yugoslavia’s Marshal Tito established Western Macedonia as one of Yugoslavia’s six republics. Before World War II, the area was referred to as VARDARSKA.

*With the appropriation of the name “Macedonia”, Tito also created a mythic language (Slavic in origin, based on West Bulgarian dialects) called “Macedonian”, whose grammar was developed by Krume Kepeski in 1944 and later codified by Blaze Koneski. The objective was territorial expansionism. Tito rewrote history by using foibles and propaganda to distort the integrity and heritage of the region.

*All Macedonian names are Greek/Hellenic: The name ALEXANDER (Αλέξανδρος) derives from the Greek words αλέξω (to repel, shield, protect) and ανήρ (man; genitive case ανδρός), and means “PROTECTOR OF MEN”. Alexander’s father was Philip II of Macedon. The name Philip is produced from the prefix Philo (meaning “friend of”) and the word hippos (meaning “horse”) – the man who is friendly to horses. Alexander’s half sister had a Greek name, Thessalonike (“victory over Thessalians”), as did his famed horse, Bucephalus (“ox-head”)… No relationship whatsoever to anything Slavic.

Alexander the Great and his teacher, Aristotle, were Greek and spoke Greek – not any Slavic language.

In other words, there are no historical ties between ancient Macedonia and the Slavic population currently residing in FYROM other than the rhetoric that has emerged since the break up of Yugoslavia.

Once again, we are Macedonians today 2010, protect and serve Hellenic Culture & Civilization and always being proud part of the Glorious Hellenic family.

I am Riskos, I am just a member of Macedonians Cultural Society for a Hellenistic World – protect and serve Hellenic Culture & Civilization – just because I am Macedonian.

June 28, 2010 at 9:22 pm
(34) Petros Houhoulis says:

Point 1

The Ancient Macedonian names turn out to have Greek etymologies, with some 85% of the Greek, 10% Illyrian and 5% undefined. The Illyrian names of those Macedonians are suspected to belong to the subtribe of the Lyncestians.

Point 2

The Ancient Macedonian calendar and names relate to the Dorian or Aeolian People. The Greek colonies in Chalkidike and Pieria were Ionian. There is no possibility of the Ionians invading/colonizing Macedonia and applying Dorian names in Macedonia.

Point 3

The Ancient Macedonians were not a compact people, but they were divided into Lower (proper) Macedonians and Upper Macedonians. Macedonia used to be Lower Macedonia and on occasion it incorporated some of the Upper Macedonian tribes that happen to be divided into many subtribes (Lyncestians, Orestians e.t.c)

Point 4

The Macedonians did not originate from The Peloponesse, but the Dorians who dominated the Peloponesse originated from the “Makednoi”, an archaic name of the Macedonians – see Herodotus. The Macedonians invaded from Illyria, stopped in Orestis for a while and continued by following the route of the Haliakmon into Brygia, the land of King Midas. The Macedonias conquered Aegae and expelled the Brygians who fled all the way to Asia Minor where they got the name Frygians. The original Macedonian invaders spoke a Doric dialect, while a portion of the conquered population of Lower Macedonia were speaking Aeolian, due to their proximity to Aeolian Thessaly.

Point 5

The Macedonians were never subdued by any Greek state or tribe ever, and thus we cannot claim that the Greek language was imposed upon them in any way, the same way as other conquerors imposed their language in their colonies. On the contrary, the Slavic language was the result of conquests by non-Slavic people whose culture enters Macedonia only as late as the 6th century A.D.

Point 6

The few surviving words of Ancient Macedonian that survive, mainly through Hesychios’ lexicon, point to the fact that Ancient Macedonian was a Centum language, much like Ancient and Modern Greek. All of the Slavic languages are Satem, thuse there is no logical connection between any Slavic language and Ancient Macedonian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centum-Satem_isogloss

Point 7

The borders of Macedonia have been fluctuating with time. Initially there was Emathia, then it was expanded gradually to Lower Macedonia, then it incorporated Upper Macedonia. Several satellite states were attached to it like Thessaly and Paeonia, not to mention the Greek city-states that became members of the League of Corinth. Alexander conquered much of the known world, but you’d be fooled to believe that all the territories that are attributed as his conquests were really under Macedonian control. In fact the Kardians (ancestors of the modern Kurds) kept resisting until well after Alexanders’ death and the Eastern parts of the Empire became parts of the Seleucids were claimed by Chandragupta, and the Parthians chipped away Persia over time too. Yet, none of these conquered territories were ever titled “Macedonia”. Only the Lower and Upper Macedonia kept that name.

Macedonia split from the other parts of Alexanders’ empire too, first under Kassander, then under the Antigonids. It had many wars but only minor border changes, until a Celtic invasion forced the Paeonians to effectively surrender to Phillip V, and they fell under Macedonian rule for less than a century, until the Romans arrived in the Region.

The Romans decided the divide Macedonia into 4 merides at first, and then to have Macedonia Prima (Lower Macedonia and parts of Upper Macedonia) and Macedonia Salutaris (Parts of Upper Macedonia and Paeonia) Yet it remains questionable whether the Paeonians were ever convinced of being Macedonian, even less if they were actually assimilated under a short rule under Phillip V and a Roman rule that had every reason in the world to maintain a weak Macedonia, out of a fear of rebellion due to the pivotal role of the Macedonians as a conquering people.

The reorganization of the Eastern Roman empire into military administrations (known as “Thema of…”) and the Slavic invasions in the South Balkans resulted to a short lived Thema of Macedonia that was formed from the remnants of the Macedonian refugees in Thrace around Adrianope (modern Edirne, Turkey) and the locals who hosted them. The thema of Macedonia played an important role in the recapture of the Balkans by the Eastern Roman empire – under the “Macedonian” dynasty that was actually of Armenian origin, but whose army were the remnants of the Macedonians in Thrace and the Thracians themselves. Despite that the Thema of Macedonia was never reinstated in Macedonia proper, since the reconquered Ancient Macedonian territories formed the themata of Strymon and Thessaloniki, plus portions of the thema of Bulgaria. The Themata virtually collapsed after the first conquest of Constantinople at 1204 by the soldiers of the 4th crusade, and the name Macedonia was wiped from the maps until the collapse of the Ottoman rule in the Balkans at 1912/13.

Almost all of Ancient Macedonia falls under modern Greece, except for two parts of Upper Macedonia (Pelagonia and Lyncestis, the latter was probably inhabited by an Illyrian people)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_(region)

Point 8

The Slavic tribes in the Balkans were known with many different tribal names (Strymonoi, Keramisians, Bersites, Smoleanoi, Draguvites, Rynchines, Sagudates, Bainuites, Velezegites Milings and Ezerites) and did never form a state of their own. They lost their independence and probably their regional names too under the pressure and conquest (including assimilation) by the Bulgarian and Eastern Roman empires, that were alternating their grip in the Balkans, until the Ottoman conquest. The Slavic inhabitants of the Balkans didn’t apply the name “Macedonian” upon themselves until the early or mid 19th century, and they applied it massively only during the 20th century.

Conclusion.

The descendants of the Slavic tribes of the Strymonoi, Keramisians, Bersites, Smoleanoi, Draguvites, Rynchines and Sagudates are free to chose any of their true names (as listed above) and leave Macedonia to its’ proper owners, since they have no religious, political, historical, cultural or linguistic affinity towards the Ancient Macedonians, and they can only claim a small portion of Ancient Macedonian geography. This is hardly convincing…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Macodnian_Sklavinia.png

Note: The above statements are compiled from historical sources and not from political statements. The latter should be dismissed because they contain political bias instead of facts. A typical case is that of Demosthenes who was famous for his rhetorical exagerrations (i.e. blatant lying) including this:

http://www.rajputbrotherhood.com/knowledge-hub/history/alexander-the-great-biography.html

“The Athenian orator Demosthenes spread a rumor that Alexander had been fatally wounded in an attack. News of Alexander’s death sparked rebellions in other Greek states, such as Thebes”

In more detail, Demosthenes went as far as to produce “a wounded Macedonian soldier” who claimed to have seen “Alexander to have been killed in battle”. When the news that Alexander was alive arrived in Athens, Demosthenes claimed that Alexander was slain in another battle, and the news had not arrived yet. When Alexander was mentioned in Macedonia preparing for war, Demosthenes argued that they should not fear a boy. When Alexander begun marching south, Demosthenes claimed that they should not fear a young man. When Alexander learnt what Demosthenes said about him, he commented that by the time he would arrive to the walls of Athens, he would be a grown man. In any case, Alexander fought, captured and destroyed Thebe, something that resulted to one more capitulation by Athens to Macedonia. The Athenians should have known better and not trust a man who threw his shield and fled the battle of Chaeronia some years earlier, acting as if he was a little boy and not a soldier and more importantly the man who sent so many other to their deaths that he eluded like a coward and deserter…

http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/imperialism/notes/demosthenes.html

“Disaster came in 338, when Philip defeated the allies in a climactic battle at Chaeronea in north-central Greece. According to Plutarch, Demosthenes was in the battle but fled after dropping his arms. Whether or not he disgraced himself in this way, it was Demosthenes whom the people chose to deliver the funeral oration over the bodies of those slain in the battle.”

March 17, 2011 at 1:07 am
(35) Aleksandar Filipovski says:

Waldemar Heckel: Macedonians and Greeks: Language, Culture, Attitudes

“It is clear from the extant historians that the lost sources made a CLEAR DISTINCTION BETWEEN MACEDONIANS AND GREEKS – ethnically, culturally and linguistically – and THIS MUST BE AN ACCURATE REFLECTION OF CONTEMPORARY ATTITUDES…..”

Alexander the Great – Historical Sources in Translation | By: WALDEMAR HECKEL, University of Calgary and J C YARDLEY, University of Ottawa

March 17, 2011 at 1:14 am
(36) Aleksandar Filipovski says:

This is what modern historians know and say:

Historian E. Borza: “It is clear that over a five-century span of writing in two languages representing a variety of historiographical and philosophical positions the ancient writers regarded the Greeks and Macedonians as two separate and distinct peoples…”

Historian NGL Hammond: “Macedonians considered themselves to be, and were treated by Alexander the Great as being, separate from the Greeks. They were proud to be so.”

Greek Historian M.B. Sakellariou: “Isokrates [father of "Hellenism"] places Macedonia outside the boundaries of Greece and describes the Macedonians as ‘an unrelated race’…”

Historian E. Badian: “As regards the Macedonian nation as a whole, (there was as we can see) no division. They were regarded as clearly barbarian, despite the various myths.”

March 25, 2011 at 2:36 pm
(37) Riskos Georg says:

Ancient writers about Macedonia – Josephus
… and that some of the Greeks took considerable pains to know the affairs of our nation. [10] I found, therefore, that the second of the Ptolemies was a king who was extraordinarily diligent in what concerned learning, and the collection of books; that he was also peculiarly ambitious to procure a translation of our law, and of the constitution of our government therein contained, into the Greek tongue.
[Antiquities of the Jews - Book I,9-10]
And when he [Alexander] went up into the temple, he offered sacrifice to God, according to the high priest’s direction, and magnificently treated both the high priest and the priests. And when the Book of Daniel was showed him 1 wherein Daniel declared that one of the Greeks should destroy the empire of the Persians, he supposed that himself was the person intended.
[Antiquities of the Jews 11.329]
And when once Ptolemy asked him how many ten thousands of books he had collected, he replied, that he had already about twenty times ten thousand; but that, in a little time, he should have fifty times ten thousand. But be said he had been informed that there were many books of laws among the Jews worthy of inquiring after, and worthy of the king’s library, but which, being written in characters and in a dialect of their own, will cause no small pains in getting them translated into the Greek tongue;
[Antiquities of the Jews 12.11]
I [Ptolemy] have determined to procure an interpretation of your law, and to have it translated out of Hebrew into Greek, and to be deposited in my library.
[Antiquities of the Jews 12.40]

We will be back…

We are Macedonians today 2011, protect and serve Hellenic Culture & Civilization and always being proud part of the Hellenic family, as Macedonians we have a task to live and die for Greece.

October 16, 2011 at 12:32 pm
(38) Denis Tenev says:

In ancient time, for Josephus (Hebrew writer) and Jewish who live in Israel, every non Hebrew nation and culture was recognized as Hellenic culture…because in time of Alexander and his empire many cultures was mixed, and Jewish people like especial nation (God`s nation) with separate religion have strong resistance from other culture and influence. Even the Jewish with strange influence was called Hellenic… (Acts2, 1-13 and Acts 6, 1.) Macedonian empire was recognized like Hellenic culture because real Hellenism was popular and dominant before…

What Josephus Flavius write about separation between Macedonians and Greeks…
“for those Greeks and Macedonians who dwelt there…”[Antiquities,13.5.11]

“These Egyptians, therefore, were the authors of these troubles, who not having the constancy of Macedonians, nor the prudence of Greeks, indulged all of them the evil manners of the Egyptians” [Against Apion, 2.6.]

And dear Petros…you have to much points…but do you know that there is a Macedonian Lexicon from XVI Century in France??? You can see on:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/28858477/Macedonian-Lexicon-XVI-Century-Un-Lexique-Macedonien-du-XVie-siecle

Where was Tito then…????

We are Macedonian before and of course we are Macedonians now…in 2011, and like before we have peaceful fight, live and die as Macedonians for Macedonia.
…and we don’t have need to back…we are here now and many centuries before!!!

November 7, 2011 at 3:02 am
(39) Riskos Georg says:

Ultimate Source List about the Bulgarian origins of Slavs in FYROM

1. Modern writers about the Bulgarian origin of FYROMs Slavs – John Foster Fraser

2. Modern writers about the Bulgarian origin of FYROM slavs – Keith Brown

3. Modern writers about the Bulgarian origin of FYROMs Slavs – Francis Seymour Stevenson

4. Modern writers about the Bulgarian origin of FYROMs Slavs – William Miller

5. Modern writers about the Bulgarian origin of FYROMs Slavs – Kemal H. Karpat

6. Modern writers about the Bulgarian origin of FYROMs Slavs – Isaac Asimov

7. Modern writers about the Bulgarian origin of FYROM slavs – Ashmead-Bartlett Ellis

46. Sir George Campbell, 1824-1892, The races, religions, and institutions of Turkey and the neighboring countries

47. Turkey in transition (1909) Abbott, G. F.

48. Turkey and the Eastern question ([1913]) Macdonald, John, M. A

49. Henry Bernard – shade of the Balkans: being a collection of Bulgarian folksongs and proverbs, 1904

54. Encyclopaedia Britannica 2007 edition


117. 25th March 1878 – Leeds Mercury’s Article about Macedonia

118. Delcheff: ” We are all Bulgars – We must work for Bulgaria “

http://history-of-macedonia.com/wordpress/2008/04/28/ultimate-source-list-of-internet-about-the-bulgarian-origins-of-slavs-in-fyrom/

SO … FYROMIANS are Bullgarians not Macedonians.

—We are Macedonians today 2011, protect and serve Hellenic Culture & Civilization and always being proud part of the Hellenic family, as Macedonians we have a task to live and die for Greece.

January 5, 2012 at 10:22 pm
(40) john right says:

I am amazed at how some people are blindly trying to steal or change the history of humanity! And when did they remember to change it, not 2000 years ago, but 20…

I believe something that is so real, cannot change no matter how much some people want to believe this lie, or try to impose it on humanity. I feel sorry for these people and their fellow ‘academics’, and hope that someday they realize that they allowed themselves to be driven in this sad path…

January 5, 2012 at 10:24 pm
(41) john smithov says:

I am amazed at how some people are blindly trying to steal or change the history of humanity! And when did they remember to change it, not 2000 years ago, but 20…

I believe something that is so real, cannot change no matter how much some people want to believe this lie, or try to impose it on humanity. I feel sorry for these people and their fellow ‘academics’, and hope that someday they realize that they allowed themselves to be driven in this sad path…

January 21, 2012 at 7:19 am
(42) Riskos Georg says:

–Delcheff: ” We are all Bulgars – We must work for Bulgaria.
So dont forget … Fyromians are Bulgarians and Albanians, not even Slavs.
I am amazed at how some people are stupidly trying to steal or change the history of humanity!

I believe something that is so real, cannot change no matter how much some people want to believe this lie, or try to impose it on humanity.

I feel sorry for these people, and hope that someday they realize that they allowed themselves to be driven in this sad ridiculus path…

We are Macedonians today 2012, protect and serve Hellenic Culture & Civilization.

June 19, 2012 at 12:26 am
(43) lm240specz says:

@ Aleksander Filipovski

What about what the Ancient historians had to say??? What about the fact That Alexander I & Phillip II self identify as Greeks, were they not speaking the truth.

You like quoting these lines from E. Borza’s book but what about these ones below. Borza’s theory that the Macedonians were not Greeks & don’t exist anymore is only shared by a handfull of modern historians as opposed the the hundreds (inc Archeologist’s & Anthropologist’s) that beg to differ.

Here is what Borza has to say about ur people;

“The 20th century development of a “Macedonian” ethnicity, & it’s recent evolution into independant statehood following the collapse of the Yugoslav state in 1991, has followed a rocky road. In order to survive the vicissitudes of Balkan history & politics, the “Macedonians” who have had no history, need one”

“The “Macedonians” are a newley emergent people in search of a past to help legitimize their precarious present as they attempt to establish their singular identity in a Slavic world dominated historically by Serbs & Bulgarians”

“If the claim is based on ethnicicity, it is an issue of a different order. Modern Slavs, both Bulgarian & Macedonians, can not establish a link with antiquity, as the Slavs entered the Balkans centuries after the demise of the ancient Macedonian Kingdom. Only the most radical slavic factions – mostly emigres of US, Canada & Australia – even attempt to establish a connection to antiquity”

July 12, 2012 at 4:17 pm
(44) macedon says:

Alexander was Macedonian, Slavs are Myth, Greeks origin is from Ethiopia, ..end of story….

December 9, 2012 at 2:22 am
(45) GK says:

Today’s Greeks are not at any linage related to the ancient Grecians, nor Hellenes. The last Battle of Chaeronea, 346 BC where Philip defeated the Greek city state alliance once and for all, who contempted to over throw Macedonia. That was the end of ancient Greeks. Today the people who think they are Greeks only occupy the lands of the ancients only in geography who have arrived from Asia minor and Italy during the byzantine roman occupation of eastern Europe. those Greeks were Romoi, and considered them selves only that, now they think they are Greek, and even stranger after all this time now they claim they are Macedonian, but never before..
Other falsification propaganda used by western and Greek alliances,
as a trinity to attack Macedonians from the Macedonian state, stating
that the linage derives not from ancient Macedonia but from paeonia and dardania, and further more that the linage is Slavic. here is an interesting fact, only about 14% DNA r1a in Serbia and 12% R1a in Macedonia is evident, how many Slavs did intermix with the natives,
of the lower Balkans.. Not many… another question is how many Greek aggressors destroyed and wiped out native Macedonians from there home lands in Aegean Macedonia, and resorting the large migrations to varder region of Macedonia as well as in pirin.
yet to be continued…

March 5, 2013 at 5:07 am
(46) Malesh says:

Petros Houhoulis have writen long rigmarole, but the end is most spectacular “battle at Chaeronea in north-central Greece” HAHAHA what a suicide ! Dear greeks and pseudomacedonians – remember – Thesaly is northern Greece, Macedonia above it , WAS and IS NOT Greece !

June 12, 2013 at 3:50 pm
(47) Ioannis K says:

omg! open a Harvard book ! Macedonians participate Olympic Games since Alexander the 1st! They spread the Hellenic culture and u still ask urselves? omg…

July 21, 2013 at 8:23 am
(48) Pete says:

“The highlanders or Makedones of the mountainous regions
of western Macedonia are derived from north-western Greek
stock. They were akin both to those who at an earlier time
may have migrated south to become the historical Dorians.”
(Eugene Borza, Emeritus professor of History, Penn. State University)

January 21, 2014 at 9:37 am
(49) gotse says:

So many uneducated and scared people commenting on simple things.

3 points…

1. If an American Indian, an Australian Aborigine or a Maori in New Zealand went into a store, hospital or a government agency – what language are they speaking? Does this make them English? NO.

2. The area called Macedonia – has been so for thousands of years. And, if you are born there, surprise surprise, you are a Macedonian. Nearly all core words ( such as sun, tree, ground, water etc.. ) spoken today are the same 1000 years ago – with or without slavic influence.

3. This point is serious. During the Balkan War (1913), Macedonia was split up into three regions. The Greek government persecuted the Macedonians living in the new Greek region. Banned the language, listened through windows, took people away if they disobeyed, changed almost all of the towns, villages and rivers’ names. Shame.

And now, for over 50 years, the Greek government are digging up the area and saying ” oh , look what hellene things we have uncovered on Greek soil”.

Please, spare me.

PS – protocal IS NOT A GREEK WORD FOR ORANGE !!!!

– the portuguese brought the orange back from asia and if you wanted one, you knew they came from portugal. Many european languages call an orange, a portugal or a protocal. Just like a mandarin is from GREECE, sorry , no , China.

Ciao!!

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